[Lance can feel more than see the anger, since he still isn't looking at Nate, and although usually anger makes him nervous in this case it's the opposite. It's reassuring, in a way, because it means Nate cares that much; although he'd never doubted Nate would care or worried that he'd judge him for this, especially since he'd known Nate had some idea about this already, there was always a chance that Lance would've predicted wrong. Especially recently.
And it probably shouldn't be a surprise that Nate makes the mental leap to immediately pick out that general concern, even though it was unsaid. Normally Lance is good at understanding people, at deciphering their motives, at being able to be a step ahead; it's a skill he learned in the same situation he'd just talked about, because it had been incredibly vital. Even if he'd never been able to truly 'win', because that was never possible to begin with, he'd been able to sometimes avoid making things worse. After he'd gotten out of that environment, he'd only become better and better at controlling--or at least being aware of--the facets of a situation in a way that would let him try to make it turn out for the best.
But here, that's all fallen apart. Even in Hadriel he'd found his footing among those who'd been brought there; the first few months had been very difficult and things had still be touch and go for awhile with the whole Guard mess, but after that--just as Nate said--the gods and the Null had been the main issue, not the people. And while he hadn't been able to actually get out of the situation of people there and under the gods' control, at least not until they'd accomplished their goal, he'd still understood what he had to do to get through it.
Here, though, he can't figure that out. So many people make choices that seem to make no sense, or change their stances on a whim, or twist conversations and leap to conclusions. He knows Nate's probably correct in that they're just trying to find conflict or are absolutely obsessed with looking like they're in the 'right', but even that should be consistent and have a pattern. This, so often, doesn't. It feels sometimes like he's talking to illusions of people, instead of actual individuals with thoughts and feelings and experiences, because he can't understand what those thoughts or feelings or experiences might be.
It's confusing and disorienting, and would be even if he didn't have the history he has. So Nate's assurance that it's not just him, that he isn't doing something wrong, that Nate doesn't understand either... It helps. It doesn't help the situation, but it helps Lance feel like maybe it really is just something external, some weird reality that they have to accept. That is isn't necessarily that maybe everyone else is behaving perfectly reasonably, and it's Lance who really is the problem.
So after a few seconds of silence he nods, shifting on his feet a little and studying the ground, readjusting how his arms are crossed before finally looking back up at Nate.]
Maybe they're all just actually secretly Curufin.
[That, at least, would make sense. Curufin really would be right at home with these people.
But awful attempt at a joke aside, he shifts his attention back to the ground and give a long, quiet exhale to help calm the nerves he knows are there but can't quite feel.]
It's just... Exhausting. Even when people are, you know, really horrible, I can usually at least see the patterns; here, it's... It's like there's no continuity, almost. They change their minds or their motives so fast, come to these strange conclusions, and talk about things that make no sense as if they're completely normal and reasonable.
[And not only is that disconcerting because he should be able to see through and make sense of all of it, but because it terrifies that deep part of him that's always afraid of making one wrong move in a situation where the consequences for doing so could be incredibly dire.]
[ The reassuring constant in Hadriel was exactly as Lance says: the reliability of Curufin being wishy-washy about something, of Law thinking himself above the constraints of their world, of Caedra believing everyone else was insignificant because of their humanity. Of Lance's perception matching reality, of Nate's tendency to get into trouble. Of Taako Taaco's flirting. The threads ran through through everyone with a consistency that was reassuring, because at least some things were predictable when their surroundings were not. It gave them commonality. Equal ground.
Here, it feels like a lot of lip service being paid toward "the greater good," only no one is actually collaborating on a level that permits free discussion - a very loud, very small minority shouting everybody else down. Nate would be lying if he said he hasn't been repeatedly disheartened by people's best attempts at encouraging open dialogue being completely derailed by the kind of crap that went down in his post about the moon.
It was the first time it happened to him, but it's not the first time it's happened on the network. He's beginning to lose track of how often someone will try to have a public conversation with all viewpoints right before an aggressive peanut gallery starts pelting tomatoes. ]
...look, it's-
[ He starts, fiddling with his ring finger and trying to find the words. ]
It's really, really tempting to just think that- maybe the problem is you, you know? But it's not. It's a bunch of limelight-loving assholes who shift their position to make themselves look good even when it contradicts something they've said before. It's not sinister, it's self-serving. Whether their ideas pan out correctly or not, it sure as Hell doesn't excuse their behavior. I've seen playground bullies with more self-awareness. [ Nate shifts, resting a hand on Lance's shoulder. ] That's all they are, Lance.
[ Telling him not to get suckered into it is easier said than done, but Nate knows the toll of fielding that kind of abuse, and he knows himself. Sooner or later you snap. Whether it ends in a black eye or a bruised ego, it happens either which way. ]
[He looks up again when Nate starts talking, his difficulty finding the right thing to say apparent and it only makes it mean more that he's trying. Even as muted as everything feels for Lance right now, how grateful he is to know Nate still makes it through the numbness and the haze.
And he listens, and tries to believe in what Nate's telling him. It helps that it's something he's recognized himself, when he's having one of his better days, and is able to more confidently assess the situation the way he would've at home. But on bad days, which have become more of the norm, it's so much more difficult to not begin to believe that maybe he's the common denominator in all of this.
And there's another reason that's so tempting, not just because it's an old habit, and he hesitates a few moments as he tries to decide how honest to be. Nate's hand on his shoulder is reassuring, though, and encouraging, and finally he admits--]
If it's me, then there's something I can do about it.
[But if it's not, then the situation is totally out of his control. It just becomes a matter of waiting for the worst to happen, and that's what he hates; that's what reminds him of the worst time in his life, and makes him feel like he's stuck in this cycle he only thought he'd escaped.
But at the same time, when he's able to see the situation more clearly, knowing that it isn't his fault is also freeing in a way. He isn't doing anything wrong. There might be challenges and obstacles that he'll have to overcome in the form of these awful people and what they do, but it's not as though anything in his life has ever been easy. He can deal with challenges, especially if he's able to take a step back and recognize them for what they truly are.
And on that subject--]
But you're right. You're right, I just... I wanted to believe better of them.
[He'd wanted to hold onto his initial opinion of this place, that it's so much easier than Hadriel, in part because of the people. They had seemed, at first, to be so willing to care. But he can see that that only lasts as long as they think people will fall into line, and that's just how it is.]
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no subject
And it probably shouldn't be a surprise that Nate makes the mental leap to immediately pick out that general concern, even though it was unsaid. Normally Lance is good at understanding people, at deciphering their motives, at being able to be a step ahead; it's a skill he learned in the same situation he'd just talked about, because it had been incredibly vital. Even if he'd never been able to truly 'win', because that was never possible to begin with, he'd been able to sometimes avoid making things worse. After he'd gotten out of that environment, he'd only become better and better at controlling--or at least being aware of--the facets of a situation in a way that would let him try to make it turn out for the best.
But here, that's all fallen apart. Even in Hadriel he'd found his footing among those who'd been brought there; the first few months had been very difficult and things had still be touch and go for awhile with the whole Guard mess, but after that--just as Nate said--the gods and the Null had been the main issue, not the people. And while he hadn't been able to actually get out of the situation of people there and under the gods' control, at least not until they'd accomplished their goal, he'd still understood what he had to do to get through it.
Here, though, he can't figure that out. So many people make choices that seem to make no sense, or change their stances on a whim, or twist conversations and leap to conclusions. He knows Nate's probably correct in that they're just trying to find conflict or are absolutely obsessed with looking like they're in the 'right', but even that should be consistent and have a pattern. This, so often, doesn't. It feels sometimes like he's talking to illusions of people, instead of actual individuals with thoughts and feelings and experiences, because he can't understand what those thoughts or feelings or experiences might be.
It's confusing and disorienting, and would be even if he didn't have the history he has. So Nate's assurance that it's not just him, that he isn't doing something wrong, that Nate doesn't understand either... It helps. It doesn't help the situation, but it helps Lance feel like maybe it really is just something external, some weird reality that they have to accept. That is isn't necessarily that maybe everyone else is behaving perfectly reasonably, and it's Lance who really is the problem.
So after a few seconds of silence he nods, shifting on his feet a little and studying the ground, readjusting how his arms are crossed before finally looking back up at Nate.]
Maybe they're all just actually secretly Curufin.
[That, at least, would make sense. Curufin really would be right at home with these people.
But awful attempt at a joke aside, he shifts his attention back to the ground and give a long, quiet exhale to help calm the nerves he knows are there but can't quite feel.]
It's just... Exhausting. Even when people are, you know, really horrible, I can usually at least see the patterns; here, it's... It's like there's no continuity, almost. They change their minds or their motives so fast, come to these strange conclusions, and talk about things that make no sense as if they're completely normal and reasonable.
[And not only is that disconcerting because he should be able to see through and make sense of all of it, but because it terrifies that deep part of him that's always afraid of making one wrong move in a situation where the consequences for doing so could be incredibly dire.]
no subject
Here, it feels like a lot of lip service being paid toward "the greater good," only no one is actually collaborating on a level that permits free discussion - a very loud, very small minority shouting everybody else down. Nate would be lying if he said he hasn't been repeatedly disheartened by people's best attempts at encouraging open dialogue being completely derailed by the kind of crap that went down in his post about the moon.
It was the first time it happened to him, but it's not the first time it's happened on the network. He's beginning to lose track of how often someone will try to have a public conversation with all viewpoints right before an aggressive peanut gallery starts pelting tomatoes. ]
...look, it's-
[ He starts, fiddling with his ring finger and trying to find the words. ]
It's really, really tempting to just think that- maybe the problem is you, you know? But it's not. It's a bunch of limelight-loving assholes who shift their position to make themselves look good even when it contradicts something they've said before. It's not sinister, it's self-serving. Whether their ideas pan out correctly or not, it sure as Hell doesn't excuse their behavior. I've seen playground bullies with more self-awareness. [ Nate shifts, resting a hand on Lance's shoulder. ] That's all they are, Lance.
[ Telling him not to get suckered into it is easier said than done, but Nate knows the toll of fielding that kind of abuse, and he knows himself. Sooner or later you snap. Whether it ends in a black eye or a bruised ego, it happens either which way. ]
no subject
And he listens, and tries to believe in what Nate's telling him. It helps that it's something he's recognized himself, when he's having one of his better days, and is able to more confidently assess the situation the way he would've at home. But on bad days, which have become more of the norm, it's so much more difficult to not begin to believe that maybe he's the common denominator in all of this.
And there's another reason that's so tempting, not just because it's an old habit, and he hesitates a few moments as he tries to decide how honest to be. Nate's hand on his shoulder is reassuring, though, and encouraging, and finally he admits--]
If it's me, then there's something I can do about it.
[But if it's not, then the situation is totally out of his control. It just becomes a matter of waiting for the worst to happen, and that's what he hates; that's what reminds him of the worst time in his life, and makes him feel like he's stuck in this cycle he only thought he'd escaped.
But at the same time, when he's able to see the situation more clearly, knowing that it isn't his fault is also freeing in a way. He isn't doing anything wrong. There might be challenges and obstacles that he'll have to overcome in the form of these awful people and what they do, but it's not as though anything in his life has ever been easy. He can deal with challenges, especially if he's able to take a step back and recognize them for what they truly are.
And on that subject--]
But you're right. You're right, I just... I wanted to believe better of them.
[He'd wanted to hold onto his initial opinion of this place, that it's so much easier than Hadriel, in part because of the people. They had seemed, at first, to be so willing to care. But he can see that that only lasts as long as they think people will fall into line, and that's just how it is.]